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    Rage 2

    Here's a game that I didn't think would get a sequel.



    Rick Canaan I think you might like this.
    Daryn's Signature



    “Just when you think humanity has found the limits of stupid, they go and ratchet up the standard by another notch.” - Bob
  • #2

    Seriously? It might be something to look forward to.

    The first Rage was okay. It wasn't great. It was kind of fun, had a few cool moments, but it wasn't great. It was also the game that was the deciding factor in why John Carmack decided to get out of video game programming and leave id. He realized that while he was a great coder, he just didn't have the chops to make a game great. So, maybe with him out of the picture, and Bethesda behind the scenes, we might see a title in the genre as great as was DooM's remake.

    Here's hoping. If it turns out to be as good as DooM's remake, then Rage 2 might indeed be something to look forward to.
    Rick Canaan's Signature
    A balanced diet is an ice cream cone in each hand - Rick Canaan

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    • #3

      Originally posted by Rick Canaan View Post
      The first Rage was okay. It wasn't great. It was kind of fun, had a few cool moments, but it wasn't great. It was also the game that was the deciding factor in why John Carmack decided to get out of video game programming and leave id. He realized that while he was a great coder, he just didn't have the chops to make a game great. So, maybe with him out of the picture, and Bethesda behind the scenes, we might see a title in the genre as great as was DooM's remake.
      The id Software that made Rage was also still owned by Bethesda, but it was at a really bad time for the company as a whole. This iteration of id though, they've got young, talented people as well as some skilled vets there. It seems like they're going for a Mad Max meets Borderlands type of vibe. I'm not sure how it'll turn out, but of id's old games, it's definitely the most surprising one to get taken up again. We'll see later this year too, as Bethesda doesn't announce games that are more than a few months out.
      Daryn's Signature



      “Just when you think humanity has found the limits of stupid, they go and ratchet up the standard by another notch.” - Bob

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      • #4

        I tell you what, I loved the first Rage. I'm big into my post-apoc stuff, as you'll all well know, and Rage scratched an itch that Fallout never managed. It felt to me like Metro 2033 with the fun and zaniness cranked to 11. The feel of the combat was brilliant, and even though some elements were underdeveloped (the great mutant-killing game only had one level of a single difficulty, and the card game had the potential to be as enjoyable as the Witcher's Gwent, but lacked a couple of obvious mechanics), I felt it was brilliant for a first outing. They managed to make a number of minigames that were all playable, without detracting from the core mechanics and the absolutely gorgeous look of the world and characters.

        I'm excited for this sequel, although I'm a tad concerned it'll take the direction of the Saints Row Games and think "They loved that fun, silly thing we did once. Let's make it 10 times bigger and have it be a core component of the storyline!".

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        • #5

          Originally posted by SliceOfDog View Post
          I tell you what, I loved the first Rage. I'm big into my post-apoc stuff, as you'll all well know, and Rage scratched an itch that Fallout never managed. It felt to me like Metro 2033 with the fun and zaniness cranked to 11. The feel of the combat was brilliant, and even though some elements were underdeveloped (the great mutant-killing game only had one level of a single difficulty, and the card game had the potential to be as enjoyable as the Witcher's Gwent, but lacked a couple of obvious mechanics), I felt it was brilliant for a first outing. They managed to make a number of minigames that were all playable, without detracting from the core mechanics and the absolutely gorgeous look of the world and characters.

          I'm excited for this sequel, although I'm a tad concerned it'll take the direction of the Saints Row Games and think "They loved that fun, silly thing we did once. Let's make it 10 times bigger and have it be a core component of the storyline!".
          I can see that. Rage would definitely be a nice scratch for folks with a post-apocalyptic itch, certainly. As it did pull off scenery from that genre really, really well.

          The game as a whole, though, for folks like me, who have come to expect nothing but the best out of id, was a letdown. It was far too linear. It gave you side missions that were supposed to send you off exploring, but it didn't take a player long to find out that there really wasn't much exploring to be done. It was, as quite a few learned early on, easy to get lost, though.

          The game did have several cool points going for it, though. The races were a blast. The desert fighting in the cars was a lot of fun, too. The mutant-killing arenas, in my opinion, were an unnecessary slog. And you had to go through them if you wanted money enough to buy decent weaponry earlier on in the game. Ask me, they should have left the mutant arena fighting out, and did more with the racing. And heck, for that matter, do something like what Blizzard did with Diablo 2 - create random map generation. This could have been implemented if you strayed off the game's course. And in these randomly generated areas, you could find monsters, probably even some really dangerous ones, but maybe a nice treasure chest or two here and there, too, and maybe even find a car someone left when they got killed by some monsters or something. Instead, they put in these little minigames, like that weird thing where you rolled and shot mutants as a sort of gambling thing and that weird card game.

          I'm glad you liked the card game, Slice. I could never bring myself to understand it. And so, the card game came to me as a kind of WTF moment, and had me asking what the heck was it even doing in a game like this.

          Also, were the bosses. Are you like, serious? The only boss which was marginally hard was that giant monster where you got the rocket launcher. I was able to get past it after only dying twice. And don't even get me started on the power plant boss. Bring your grenades, kiddies. Cause if you lob them in at the boss at the end of that level, he staggers, giving you time to throw another and then another, and to keep throwing them till he's dead, he never managing to get off a shot from being staggered. It was as bad as many of the boss-kill bugs that plagued the original Nintendo!

          In my final analysis of the game, it was the result of a lack of real organization of its development staff, and instead was a victim of what I characterize as 'Too many cooks'. "Ooh! Let's put this in! I bet people will think it's cool!" sort of thing. There was too little leadership and vision in its development, and too much 'Let's throw this and that in there!'. There was too much filling, too many sprinkles on top, but simply put, not enough doughnut.
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          • #6

            Despite the game's flaws though, I think we can all agree that Rage had 'something' there. We've ach pointed out some positive things about it. I particularly liked the setting and the sound design was excellent. So there was room for improvement, and hopefully, this new game will make those improvements. I just don't want them to turn it into a gungasm like Borderlands is.

            Don't screw this up, id!
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            “Just when you think humanity has found the limits of stupid, they go and ratchet up the standard by another notch.” - Bob

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            • #7

              Oh, it wasn't a bad game. My only contention was, is that it wasn't up to id's usual standards. I expect a lot out of id, as I expect a lot of people who have come to love the game company do too. And Rage, given the technology available to id at the time, just wasn't up to the company's usual standards of excellence.

              The one thing that id has had going for it from its inception, is that they made games that were fun. DooM was fun. Quake was fun, and now the new DooM was fun. You can see the change that went through id when John Romero left. A lot of the gaming company's fun went with him. For a very long time after that, from Quake2 all the way up through Rage, id was very hit and miss with all of its titles. They were finally able to revitalize their image with the new DooM.

              What I'm saying is, is that Rage, while it wasn't an entire miss, it was nearly a miss. I am hoping, with this new talent id has now, the kind of talent that produced DooM, that the new Rage will be just as much as a smash as the revitalization that DooM was. A game that is not only visually striking, but an absolute blast to play, too.

              I love id. It is my absolute favorite game company. I have bought every title they've ever produced. I've sat through some, deeply disappointed. What's happened to id, I'd ask myself. I asked it while playing Quake2, Quake3, the new Wolfenstein titles and Rage. But I always held my hope. id was once a great company. Whenever I bought their newest title, I'd say to myself, maybe this is it. The long disappointment was finally over with the remake of DooM. They raised their fans levels of expectations with it. Now, we're all kind of holding our breath with this new Rage title. Will id maintain the bar they set with the new DooM? Or will they disappoint again? Or as I hope, and doubtlessly many others do too, that id will raise the bar even higher with this newest title?

              id set the standard for the first-person-shooter experience. They started the genre. That gives them a reputation to live up to. I hope in my heart of hearts that they'll live up to it with Rage 2.
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              A balanced diet is an ice cream cone in each hand - Rick Canaan

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              • #8

                Hehe, talking about this game, prompted me to download it [Rage] again and start playing it again.

                As you probably already know, Slice, I've never been much of a fan of the dystopian genre. Movies about it, books about it - they all just never much appealed to me. I think just about the only movies I liked in the genre were Oblivion and the reboot of the Planet of the Apes milieu. Getting me to read books in the genre is just about tantamount to talking me into pulling my fingernails out with pliers. The only reason I tried Rage in the first place, was because it was an id title. If it had been made by any other gaming company, I would have probably never heard of it.

                Now, In replaying it...

                John Romero was quoted as saying: "A story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. Everybody expects there to be one, but nobody cares what it is."

                I guess it could be argued that a game like Rage needed the story. It's a game about a post-apocalyptic Earth. It probably wouldn't work very well without one. But the story that Rage does put forward... well, in my opinion, especially after replaying the game for a little while again, just doesn't tell the story in any kind of really inclusive way. It tries for a balance between engaging game play and interesting story.

                And in my opinion, fails. If I had to characterize it in another kind of game, well, I might use a card game or say perhaps basketball. In the card game, you'd have to memorize a plot or have to sit through some kind of story to be able to play your next card. In the basketball game, you'd have to listen to a narrative about something before you could shoot the ball, and be made to understand what the narrative was about before you could make the throw. In both instances, the game would be slowed down. It would also have the players scratching their heads. "Is this really necessary? I'm just here to play cards or shoot hoops. What's all this story business all about?" If either of these two games had some kind of narrative or story, then they should be optional. They aren't necessary for understanding the game, but can be included if the player(s) wanted, and can be ignored if the players preferred. Rage requires the inclusion of the story. That was its mistake.

                I would like Rage a lot more, if I didn't need to worry about the story. I would find it more fun if I could just go exploring and just go do stuff. Instead, in Rage, you have to refer back to your dossier to remind yourself what you're supposed to be doing, which in my opinion, gives the game a slogging quality. If you aren't sure about what you're supposed to be doing, what your next objective is supposed to be, then you do become lost in the game. There is no point to playing it. You have to get back on track with where the story wants to take you, which often requires the player to go do stuff he'd probably rather not do (like go fight in Mutant Bash TV for instance), or you just have to quit playing and go find something else to do. Then the other stuff you can do in the game, like the card game, the little challenges in the bars in Wellspring, they feel like they were added in as afterthoughts, which in my estimation tarnishes the game even more.

                Even John Carmack, the lead programmer for the project, said that Rage was not a very good offering. It was the game in fact that finally prompted his exodus from video-game development all together. He just had to admit to himself that he was not a very good game maker.

                Then it was years before id made anymore offerings of any significance. There were the Wolfenstein titles, but even those were too story-based. But then, finally, id releases DooM. Finally, a game that has a story that nobody needs to care about to be able to play it!

                In DooM, you're Doomguy! Your only goal and even your whole point of playing it, is just big guns and eradicating demons. It's fun, it was well executed, its graphics were great, and playing it is enormously cathartic. It even won many awards. So, does that mean that id now has a chemistry in its development team that knows how to make games that are just pure fun again? For years, many years, the company lost this quality. Do they have it back now? Will Rage 2 be another stepping stone to id's return to the hall of fame of great game making? Will Rage 2 be something to look forward to?

                It was well over a year after its release that I bought the first newer Wolfenstein title. Then I tentatively purchased the Old Blood sequel, but only after it went on sale. I bought Rage almost as soon as it came out. People said it had Doom references in it, and that many people thought it was going to prove to be the next Doom!

                Not.

                I'll probably be a little more tentative and circumspect about buying Rage 2. DooM was the only game title that I felt giddy about before buying in many, many years. Do I have reason to feel giddy about Rage 2? I'd like to. I'd like to believe that id is back to being an awesome-game-pumping-out machine again. But... I think I'll be waiting on the reviews. I'll watch a few YouTube videos from people who've played it. I'll wait and see what other people think about it first. I'm not so giddy about its release after all, then, I guess.

                And that in the end is what a gaming company should strive for, don't you think? So many game companies have lost this. Some utterly (yeah, I'm looking at you EA). Making games is about making money, a lot of it if you can. The best way a game company can do this, in my estimation, is to make gamers giddy about what you're going to come up with next. id had this for a while. They lost it. With DooM, they made some of us peek up, take another look at them, feel tentatively giddy about them again. If id delivers with Rage 2, which I hope they will, well...

                It's going to be nice to be able to feel giddy about a gaming company again.
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                • #9

                  Originally posted by Rick Canaan View Post
                  Then it was years before id made anymore offerings of any significance. There were the Wolfenstein titles, but even those were too story-based. But then, finally, id releases DooM. Finally, a game that has a story that nobody needs to care about to be able to play it!

                  In DooM, you're Doomguy! Your only goal and even your whole point of playing it, is just big guns and eradicating demons. It's fun, it was well executed, its graphics were great, and playing it is enormously cathartic. It even won many awards. So, does that mean that id now has a chemistry in its development team that knows how to make games that are just pure fun again? For years, many years, the company lost this quality. Do they have it back now? Will Rage 2 be another stepping stone to id's return to the hall of fame of great game making? Will Rage 2 be something to look forward to?
                  I didn't finish Doom as it got to the point where I was having trouble seeing what was going on. That said, what I did play of it was excellent. The real brilliance of Doom though was that it did have a story, a lot of it in fact. It didn't hit you over the head with it though and left it to you to dig ino the files and explore itif you cared to. Then there was Doomguy himself, who despite never having said a word was one of the most expressive characters I've seen in a long time. Doom won many awards, and it was well-deserved. There was some real brilliance at play there.

                  Originally posted by Rick Canaan View Post
                  I'll probably be a little more tentative and circumspect about buying Rage 2. DooM was the only game title that I felt giddy about before buying in many, many years. Do I have reason to feel giddy about Rage 2? I'd like to. I'd like to believe that id is back to being an awesome-game-pumping-out machine again. But... I think I'll be waiting on the reviews. I'll watch a few YouTube videos from people who've played it. I'll wait and see what other people think about it first. I'm not so giddy about its release after all, then, I guess.
                  I'd say it's a smart idea to not throw down your money on it just yet. It may turn out to be as brilliant as Doom, and if it is, we'll hear about it soon enough. (Like, tomorrow.) It's an uphill fight for this game though, as it's the sequel to a game nobody expected to ever get one.

                  As I see it, right now id is making three types of games. All of them are shooters, but they're all very different. You've got the multiplayer focused Quake Champions, a game that harkens back to Quake III Arena. You've got the Wolfenstein games, which are pure single-player narrative-driven games, and then Doom, which is a classic style shooter that can be enjoyed by one or more players. Where Rage 2 will land, I'm not sure, but we'll know soon enough.
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                  • #10

                    Originally posted by Daryn View Post
                    was that it did have a story, a lot of it in fact. It didn't hit you over the head with it though and left it to you to dig into the files and explore it if you cared to
                    And that right there was its brilliance. You didn't need to care about the story to play the game. Or even win it. You could ignore the story entirely and still complete the game. You didn't once need to know anything other than where your gun was pointing and where the monsters were.

                    As to the story, itself, that is if you wanted to look into it, it was brilliant. If you read through it, it added a whole new level of depth to the game. Without it, you're swimming nicely in the deep end already. But with it, there was a context that could really make you feel like you were finding treasure at the bottom.

                    Also, you're right about the Doomguy. He was wonderfully emotive. Moreover, he conveyed an attitude to which we can all relate. You're working retail and you have one of those customers walk through the door. You're stuck in a massive traffic backup and hating it. You buy milk only to find it spoiled when you get home.

                    Not this again!!!

                    If you let yourself be drawn into Doomguy's attitude, it added wonderfully to the game's catharsis. From beginning to end, he was all like 'NOT this again! Damn humans have done it again! When are they going to stop messing with things they got no business fiddling with! I am tired of having to clean up their damn messes!' Which is an emotion, like I say, everybody can relate to!
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                    • #11

                      Well, here's a mission. Looks like they're going for the completely over-the-top approach for this one.

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                      “Just when you think humanity has found the limits of stupid, they go and ratchet up the standard by another notch.” - Bob

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                      • #12

                        Looks to me like they're finally doing what should have been done with the first Rage game.

                        The technology was available for it back then. The Halo titles were just about as advanced as this back when id released the first Rage. Rage was just pure laziness, a software team unable to get up off their duffs enough to do something truly imaginative. Looks like Bethesda has solved this by putting a real ambitious team on the project.

                        Bethesda has set bars. Now they need to live up to them. Raise them even higher if they can. A reputation for making great games, they need to live up to. That spotlight is nice. It's also a responsibility. They're going to need to work to stay in it. 'Nuff said.
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                        • #13

                          Originally posted by Rick Canaan View Post
                          Looks to me like they're finally doing what should have been done with the first Rage game.

                          The technology was available for it back then. The Halo titles were just about as advanced as this back when id released the first Rage. Rage was just pure laziness, a software team unable to get up off their duffs enough to do something truly imaginative. Looks like Bethesda has solved this by putting a real ambitious team on the project.

                          Bethesda has set bars. Now they need to live up to them. Raise them even higher if they can. A reputation for making great games, they need to live up to. That spotlight is nice. It's also a responsibility. They're going to need to work to stay in it. 'Nuff said.
                          Avalanche Studios seems to have taken over from Id Software, and I think its a change for the best. I can see the DNA of Avlanche's Mad Max in the vehicle combat, and they dev's have proven they know open world fun with Just Cause 2 and 3. So I'm interested for sure. Having never played the original I have to ask if it had shoot n' loot elements like Borderlands. Because my boyfriend and I have been hankering for Borderlands 3, and at this rate this is looking like the closest we're going to get xD
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                          • #14

                            No, the original was very procedural. You had a story and you were forced to stick to the story. There were no fun surprises. There were no unexpected loots. There was no players being able to effect the outcome of the game. You played the game from start to finish and that was pretty much it. The only good things it had going for it was the way the enemies moved and how the world looked. It had enemies moving in ways no one had ever seen before in a video game, and its landscape was strikingly well done post-apocalyptic. But even though it had those, the gameplay dulled very quickly.

                            As to Avalanche, they are heading the development, but they aren't the end-all, be-all of it. id is working alongside them in a sort of cooperation. Daryn can tell you more. He being the gamer geek that he is, he has a lot more details on it than I do. But one thing is for certain, Bethesda is paying real attention to game development again. To paraphrase the immortal words of Allen Mulally, 'Let's make games people want to buy!'
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                            • #15

                              Originally posted by Rick Canaan View Post
                              As to Avalanche, they are heading the development, but they aren't the end-all, be-all of it. id is working alongside them in a sort of cooperation. Daryn can tell you more. He being the gamer geek that he is, he has a lot more details on it than I do. But one thing is for certain, Bethesda is paying real attention to game development again. To paraphrase the immortal words of Allen Mulally, 'Let's make games people want to buy!'


                              To clarify how id and Avalanche are working together here, it's basically like how id and Raven and Ritual used to work together Heretic/Hexen back in the day. id supplies the tech and the basic game concept, then Avalanche took that concept and developed it out. id does have some say in where it goes, but they know that if they put talented teams on collaborative projects then they won't have to do too much in the way of interventions. From what I've seeing so far, it looks like it's a strategy that's working, as it lets them continue to release their games on a decent schedule.
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